Draytons Community Association

Living in the Draytons in West Ealing

Finding a place to park really isn't getting any easier, is it? And for the last couple of years it seems to have been getting progressively worse.

Several probable contributory factors.
1. Its now some of the only free parking in the area - the rest is getting more and more controlled
2. Its very handy for the station - Paddington commuters and Heathrow longer termers
3. Waitrose staff
4. Nearby building site workers
5. Unexplained influx of commercial vehicles (maybe related to items 1 & 4)
6. Post Office vans

There may well be others.
Items 3 & 6 might be negotiable and item 4 will hopefully dissipate in time, but even then the problem would probably remain .

If Drayton's residents would like to have an easier time of finding parking spaces, then maybe once again the time has come to consider making the Draytons a controlled parking zone (CPZ).

Do others have views?

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We would like a CPZ. As parents of two small children the lack of parking is making life quite difficult. We often have to double park to unload shopping and then walk up the street with both children - not great in the rain! Several times we have had to park on a different street altogether - again not great when coming back from school or nursery with two tired children.

I think the problem is mainly in the streets near the station but it is slowly moving down the roads.

Althought we would support a CPZ how many other people would support it? Since moving here 5 years ago we have always felt that we were in a minority. What are the next steps to get a CPZ?
Matt,

Glad to have you on board.

To get a CPZ I believe one would need to apply to Ealing council, probably by having a word with one of our councillors.

From my own experience I can certainly confirm that the parking problem is already significantly increased all the way down Drayton Road. I imagine that nowhere in the Draytons is entirely unaffected and that as time goes by it will get worse. Particularly as the new high density buildings overflow their built-in parking and the new one at the West end of Manor Road goes up.

Fair representation
However, I have the impression that in some cases CPZs have been imposed against the wishes of a majority of residents, which is clearly something we'd prefer not to happen. Once a CPZ is in place, its there for good. So a CPZ should only be imposed if the majority believe it to be a suitable measure.

Objections
Many who oppose CPZs do so either because they regard it as an unacceptable infringement of liberty or because they resent paying a tax for something that's always been free before. The way I see it, it is arguable that if one can no longer park easily near one's own property, then that freedom has gone in any case and having the option to buy a residents parking permit can only be an improvement. Others may see it very differently.

Another common objection is the inconvenience and cost when residents have visitors who will need to get a temporary permit from them to park. One way around this is to limit the CPZ to just enough hours of the day to be inconvenient or unworkable for those who are neither residents nor bona fide guests. For example simply having just two restricted periods every day from, say, 9-11 am and 2-4 pm might well turn the tide. But I gather that it is possible for periods to be changed later if unsatisfactory.

Possible self count?
We might consider attempting to get an idea of the proportion of non-resident parking that exists. After all, if there are actually few outsider vehicles, (which I rather doubt), then a CPZ would not be in our interests at all. Perhaps we could produce a small identifier that we'd ask all residents to display in their windscreens. A simple walk around count would then give us a quick measure... Is there support for this idea?

Appeal for opinion: WHERE DO YOU STAND?
Whatever, before considering making any CPZ application - one which might be acted on faster were that request to come from the DCA - it would be good to gauge where most Draytons residents stand. All residents - please say what you think.

Please encourage all those you know to contribute to this thread.
Hi Chris - yes I agree with you there is a clear problem. However the issue seems to be that the only solution on offer, a CPZ, is one that impacts the whole of the Draytons, including areas where there isn't a parking problem. This means that people in the community who experience the parking problems have to rely on others in the community who don't, voting for and accepting a new burden from which they will benefit little. It's likely a CPZ will only be accepted once the parking pain is more uniformly distributed across the Draytons - the situation is certainly moving in the this direction, but not sure it's bad enough yet for the CPZ to be accepted at the next consultation - we will have to wait and see. If not, it might take more imagination from the council to propose better targeted alternatives which tackle the problem for the streets which experience it,
Ewen
Ewen McKinnon said:
Hi Chris - yes I agree with you there is a clear problem. However the issue seems to be that the only solution on offer, a CPZ, is one that impacts the whole of the Draytons, including areas where there isn't a parking problem. This means that people in the community who experience the parking problems have to rely on others in the community who don't, voting for and accepting a new burden from which they will benefit little. It's likely a CPZ will only be accepted once the parking pain is more uniformly distributed across the Draytons - the situation is certainly moving in the this direction, but not sure it's bad enough yet for the CPZ to be accepted at the next consultation - we will have to wait and see. If not, it might take more imagination from the council to propose better targeted alternatives which tackle the problem for the streets which experience it,
Ewen
Hi Ewan,

You're quite right of course that not all residents will support a CPZ. Mind you, I think that the entire Draytons area is being progressively more affected and that nobody here can take it for granted that parking near their home will not be a problem. I know that Manor Road and Drayton Avenue are particularly badly hit, but in Drayton Road- even at the far end, its also becoming a nightmare. I'd be interested to know if there's any corner of The Draytons that isn't badly affected. I rather doubt it...

Those who oppose a CPZ whose opinions I have heard tend to cite paying to park as an unfair tax that will not in any case significantly improve anyone's lot. That's a perfectly reasonable viewpoint.

Personally, I believe that the situation has already become so bad that non residents need to be encouraged to park elsewhere. And provided that the CPZ specifically excludes those from outside the area, then it should work.

Where I do have immense sympathy with those against a CPZ is that poorly considered zone rights, perhaps aimed at revenue more than to specifically protect The Draytons crowded streets from outsiders, might allow those in the nearby tower blocks to use the Draytons too, which would be entirely counter productive.

The devil will as usual be in the detail:

• Is this to be a new zone or an extension of another?
• Which streets will be in the zone?
• Will any outside that zone have the right to obtain permits?
• Can local businesses park commercial vehicles in the zone?
• What hours and what days would the zone be in force for?
• How many permits per household?
• What about bona fide visitors?
• Annual, Monthly, Weekly, Daily, Hourly terms?
• How much will it cost?
• Is it true that once in place a CPZ is very unlikely to be removed?
• If it doesn't work as planned, how easy is it to adjust hours and days?

Before any of us can make an informed decision, we need to know exactly what is actually being proposed. We can only hope that the consultation includes that. Otherwise its going to be a blind guess that I fear may not turn out too well.

Chris.
Hello John,

Your message doesn't seem to have come through...

We'd be very interested in hearing from you though!

Chris
Sorry Ewen,
Had a friend called Ewan so stupidly spelled your name wrong. Apologies.
C
I think a first step is for us to work out how many carparking spaces there are in the Draytons and how many cars we residents own. A lot of properties have more than one car these days, and we have more flats than previously. A CPZ doesn't guarantee you a parking space. We really need to know what resident demand is, and who else would be able to apply for parking permits if there was a CPZ - would the teachers at Drayton Green primary, for example, qualify? It isn't only during the day that is is difficult to park - evenings are getting more fraught too. Let's gather facts so that we can find a solution.

M-L Childs

Chris Manton said:
Matt,

Glad to have you on board.

To get a CPZ I believe one would need to apply to Ealing council, probably by having a word with one of our councillors.

From my own experience I can certainly confirm that the parking problem is already significantly increased all the way down Drayton Road. I imagine that nowhere in the Draytons is entirely unaffected and that as time goes by it will get worse. Particularly as the new high density buildings overflow their built-in parking and the new one at the West end of Manor Road goes up.

Fair representation
However, I have the impression that in some cases CPZs have been imposed against the wishes of a majority of residents, which is clearly something we'd prefer not to happen. Once a CPZ is in place, its there for good. So a CPZ should only be imposed if the majority believe it to be a suitable measure.

Objections
Many who oppose CPZs do so either because they regard it as an unacceptable infringement of liberty or because they resent paying a tax for something that's always been free before. The way I see it, it is arguable that if one can no longer park easily near one's own property, then that freedom has gone in any case and having the option to buy a residents parking permit can only be an improvement. Others may see it very differently.

Another common objection is the inconvenience and cost when residents have visitors who will need to get a temporary permit from them to park. One way around this is to limit the CPZ to just enough hours of the day to be inconvenient or unworkable for those who are neither residents nor bona fide guests. For example simply having just two restricted periods every day from, say, 9-11 am and 2-4 pm might well turn the tide. But I gather that it is possible for periods to be changed later if unsatisfactory.

Possible self count?
We might consider attempting to get an idea of the proportion of non-resident parking that exists. After all, if there are actually few outsider vehicles, (which I rather doubt), then a CPZ would not be in our interests at all. Perhaps we could produce a small identifier that we'd ask all residents to display in their windscreens. A simple walk around count would then give us a quick measure... Is there support for this idea?

Appeal for opinion: WHERE DO YOU STAND?
Whatever, before considering making any CPZ application - one which might be acted on faster were that request to come from the DCA - it would be good to gauge where most Draytons residents stand. All residents - please say what you think.

Please encourage all those you know to contribute to this thread.
Hi Marie-Louise

I certainly agree that knowing numbers would be a good thing.

I'd previously suggested that we might produce or obtain some simple small identifier and ask all residents to display in their vehicles. That way we'd have a chance of counting...

What do you think?
Parking is not yet a big problem on the Grove and I am always reluctant to volunteer for a new tax and a new restriction.

But, I see the pain elsewhere and I see its potentially heading our way so I feel we should start talking to each other and the council so we can decide as a community what we want to do.

From working in government I know how easy it can be to 'frig' a consultation by limiting the options being consulted on and funneling people into accepting the least worst.

Does anyone know what options are available and who we would need to talk to in order to explore them?

Also do we know of associations in areas with CPZ so we could consult with them?
Chris

I think it's a great idea and the sooner we get started, the better. I'm happy to help. It would be helpful if we could get residents from each road to deliver the discs and encourage people to get thinking about a solution. I also think it would be helpful to run the exercise at different times of day, and if possible, during during term and half term, to get the full measure of parking in this area. I don't think a CPZ is the answer. It really only works in a small defined area, otherwise it just creates problems elsewhere - as we know. Ideally the council needs to take a wider view of parking in the borough - with CPZs lots of road space is not being made the best use of. Does the urban plan for the borough cover parking?

Chris Manton said:
Hi Marie-Louise

I certainly agree that knowing numbers would be a good thing.

I'd previously suggested that we might produce or obtain some simple small identifier and ask all residents to display in their vehicles. That way we'd have a chance of counting...

What do you think?
I think it could work but we would perhaps want to try one road as a test, the key would be to get as near 100% of residents displaying the symbol as possible through door knocking.

Marie-Louise Childs said:
Chris

I think it's a great idea and the sooner we get started, the better. I'm happy to help. It would be helpful if we could get residents from each road to deliver the discs and encourage people to get thinking about a solution. I also think it would be helpful to run the exercise at different times of day, and if possible, during during term and half term, to get the full measure of parking in this area. I don't think a CPZ is the answer. It really only works in a small defined area, otherwise it just creates problems elsewhere - as we know. Ideally the council needs to take a wider view of parking in the borough - with CPZs lots of road space is not being made the best use of. Does the urban plan for the borough cover parking?

Chris Manton said:
Hi Marie-Louise

I certainly agree that knowing numbers would be a good thing.

I'd previously suggested that we might produce or obtain some simple small identifier and ask all residents to display in their vehicles. That way we'd have a chance of counting...

What do you think?

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